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roosterbri
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
553 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 12:15:37
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I agree. It is surely not illegal or against the wishes of the ""Developer"" for the APC to issue a simple statement along the lines of ""As duly elected (by the residents) members of the APC we will defend and support the wishes of the residents" etc etc
Or is mischievy afoot???
Come on APC stand up and be counted
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HanceR
Junior Member
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 12:17:35
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Robin
I fully agree with you it is about time APC got off the fence and start asking questions of ADC who clearly are not presenting us with accurate and may be honest information?
Richard Hance |
Richard Hance |
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deb8
Average Member
59 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 16:16:42
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I fear we are all being over optimistic in assuming that APC or ADC will listen to our concerns. At the risk of reiterating my words, three supermarkets didnt decide to build/upgrade in the area without knowing something!
Picking up from the last paragraph of Charlie1's post and reading Nick Herbert's pledge - 'I pledge to work hard for everyone in the constituency, to stand up for local people and to be a strong voice at Westminster for your concerns', perhaps we should bypass ADC and APC and go to the top.
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 17:10:25
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I don't think it is a question of being "...over optimistic..." about APC or ADC "..listening to our concerns."
What I find somewhat strange, is that when individuals put themselves up for election to APC or ADC...they all do so on the basis that they are willing to, and want to, represent the residents, on those two Local Government authorities.
It is a very clear principle that each Councillor, Parish or District, represents the interests of their residents. That is their principle responsibility.
Although I appreciate there are some stresses and pressures within those authorities to conform to certain views and "cabinet responsibility," I fail to understand what transition of mind, occurs to these individuals, whereby their priority alters, from that of the residents that they are supposed to represent, and were anxious to represent at the time of their election and appointment....to a priority in favour of the organisation of the respective Local Council, and an appearance of failing to represent the residents, or an indifference to our views and wishes, which is beyond doubt, in this particular subject.
If the reason or explanation for this transition of mind could be explained, one may feel inclined to have a degree of understanding. No such explanation has yet been forthcoming.
Without such explanation, which should not be difficult to provde, without being specific over the current issues; many residents will have no confidence whatsoever in these elected Councillors and one may well question why we voted for them. |
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deb8
Average Member
59 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 18:21:46
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As I understand it:
Power changes the brain, increases testosterone which increases dopamine in the reward system. People in power objectify those they represent rather than empathising with them and therein lies the problem!
For quite some time now we have allowed those in power (politicians, councillors etc) to ignore the wishes of their electorate by our apathy.
As a side issue, go back through old posts. How many times did BRAM call for APC to be accountable?
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Nigel
Senior Member
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 18:52:41
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Having been a councillor myself, I can understand that they have to be seen to be impartial when making decisions.The planning committee will be called to make their representations at the appropriate time, all six of them. Why can't the other six councillors, not involved with the planning committee, make their views known to their parishoners.
The same goes for our representatives on A.D.C. Although one sits on their planning committee and it would be inappropriate for her to comment at this time,our other two representatives remain consistently quiet.
I do wonder how quiet they all will be when its time for their re-election. |
Edited by - Nigel on 06 Aug 2012 20:14:02 |
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 19:54:01
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Perhaps Arun want you to think there's no point in objecting?
“A lost battle is a battle one thinks one has lost.” by Ferdinand Foch
Don't let them win!!
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Euphrosene
Average Member
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 20:57:20
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Fleeting visit to Planning Meeting at the Community Centre.
I got the impression, the blame was being passed to Arun DC for feeding information late in the day and requiring a response in an equally brief time.
Protest letters to be sent to:
Simon Meecham
Head of Planning Policy and Conservation
Arun District Council
Maltravers Road
Littlehampton
West Sussex
BN17 5LF
I don't yet know his email address but, if their usual format works, it *could* be Simon.Meecham@arun.gov.uk
If it bounces, then it obviously isn't :^)
Include topics that increase degradation of the village, for example, the increased risk regarding flooding on the planned 'light industrial' site.
I'm sure every concerned individual could think of a few more.
Cheers Euphrosene
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www.euphrosenelabon.com |
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 22:17:11
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A range of suggested topics for inclusion in letters of objection is being prepared by Save Angmering (SAV) and will be available to supporters once details of Barratts planning application are known. If you would like to be included on their mailing list, send e-mail to saveangmering@hotmail.co.uk
For more information, go to www.saveangmering.co.uk |
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roosterbri
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
553 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 05:49:17
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Bert
Knock me down if I am wrong but surely it is only APC that is elected. Whilst elected councillors may sit on the various ADC Committees most of ADC workforce and strategists are for want of a better description ""Civil Servants"" and thereby "Not Elected", but they still carry a lot of power. Who really makes the decisions for the government?
Just idle thinking early in the morning |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 09:51:59
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roosterbri....Of course, a Parish Council (PC) is much smaller than a District Council and the PC is made up of elected councillors together with a Clerk and assistant Clerks.
A Distict Council, is as you suggest, (and I'm sure most if not all residents know,) made up largely of "Officials" (Civil Servants, if you like) who are unelected, together with a substantial number of Councillors.
As I'm sure you know, Angmering has three elected District Councillors. Each ward in towns and villages has a number of Councillors, so there are quite a substantial number of District Councillors, covering Arun DC.
Of course, the Officials have substantial power and influence with policy on all matters within the responsibility of a Distrct Council.
However, the role of a District Councillor is extremely important and they have very substantial voting powers. They have been elected to represent the residents of their ward/area, when voting for matters of policy.
In Planning matters for example, the Planning Officials do most if not all the work, with policy and strategy. But they have to put forward their policy and strategy, to a vote, by Councillors, in order for it to be adopted. For example, the Local Plan, will be put together by Officials, but will be voted upon, by Councillors.
All planning applications are dealt with/progressed/administered, by Officials, and they will make recommendations as to how Councillors may wish to vote. eg. how an application sits within National legislation, (The Town and Country Planning Act) and Government guidance etc..
Officials do not vote. Councillors vote, and that is how decisions are made, at DC level. I accept there are certain "rules and regulations" within which these votes/decisions are made, but it is Councillors who vote on matters of policy, recommended by Officials, and it is Councillors who are supposed to represent their residents when they do vote.
Councillors are perfectly entitled to vote in an alternative manner to recommendations made by Officials. They may not be very popular with officials when they do so; but their responsibility is to the residents they represent, as opposed, to being popular with Officials.
So it is not just a case of District Councillors ..."sitting on various ADC Committees." They have very real voting power.
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Charlie1
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 10:29:54
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| Bert said "and the PC is made up of elected councillors". Is it? The last two new Councillors seemed to get the job just because the other APC Councillors voted to accept their application to join. There are, apparently, two new vacancies. How will these new Councillors get onto the Parish Council? Have the people of Angmering really voted our APC Councillors onto it? If they do in the same way, that will be a total of 4 new members agreed by APC, not the people. |
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roosterbri
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
553 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 11:56:12
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| Whooooshh!!! Crawls back under the table as it looks like Charlie has set a whole new ball game is running |
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roosterbri
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
553 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 12:01:18
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| I hear what you say Bert but at the end of the day if it all goes to appeal it will be an unelected civil service inspector who would pass judgement. Admitted the final appeal is to the appropriate minister. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 13:12:40
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| roosterbri....yes I agree, that is the issue at the end of the road.... I was merely providing a reply to your point in respect of elected District Councillors or unelected Officials at a District Council and their respective responsibilities. |
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Charlie1
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 13:18:28
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I notice SAV's website (www.saveangmering.co.uk) has been updated. Looks like we should all be writing to ADC NOW!
"Comment on the Draft Local Plan by sending an email to localplan@arun.gov.uk or write to Simon Meecham, Head of Planning Policy and Conservation, Arun Civic Centre, Maltravers Road, Littlehampton, West Sussex BN17 5LF
It is VERY important that you comment on the Draft Local Plan for Arun by 10th September 2012. This Plan shows an "employment site" at Water Lane and 590 houses for Angmering.
Please challenge this Draft Local Plan- it does not echo what our draft Neighbourhood Plan wants. Of the 40% of people who returned their Survey, 75% wanted 100 houses or less. The building in the Local Plan for Angmering goes against it's policy of not building on greenfield sites. The sites are "outside the built up area"and should remain green. The Local Plan states brownfield sites should be built on before on greenfield ones, so why it this not the case for Angmering?
When you comment, please state why these sites are wrong for Angmering: flood risk, overcrowded schools, inadequate infrastructure, village roads unsuitable for the extra traffic, drains and sewerage unable to cope, houses too expensive for our local people to buy, lack of local jobs with sufficient wages to pay the mortgages (if you can get a mortgage). There are unsold properties in Angmering- these new homes may well remain unsold or filled with people who are from out of the area, or who have to commute to work.
The more people that comment, the more Arun will have to listen! Please write NOW."
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 21:33:10
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You need to factor in party politics.
Most decisions are taken in party political group meetings and then rubber stamped at full council.
Decisions like this are always group decisions and then enforced by party whips.
The Conservatives at Arun have a very substantial majority and so Angmering and Barnham ward councillors (only 6 in total) will be allowed to abstain - so that we will all vote for them next time!
If they were to vote against a group decision they would almost certainly be expelled from the group. The end of their political careers!
There are 56 councillors in total. I think there are 42 Conservatives. The opposition members are very supportive of the draft Local Plan. So the Conservatives can afford 6 abstentions!!
My guess is that District Councillors will put their party political careers ahead of all other matters and "toe the party line"! |
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Charlie1
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 15:59:27
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| I see that a new fence has gone up to the south of Pound House in Roundstone Lane. Is this something to do with the Barratts development? |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 18:33:18
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| I think it is just a replacement fence at the far south of Pound House's garden. |
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Robinf
Senior Member
105 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 20:14:55
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| Yes, the old one just fell apart. |
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Paul
Advanced Member
319 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 21:32:52
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In addition to party politics, you need to consider accountability. Of the 56 District Councillors, 3 are elected by Angmering voters. Even if all 3 were on Planning, they are vastly outnumbered by the remaining councillors. These cannot be voted out by Angmering voters so probably have no loyalty to ensuring Angmering gets a fair deal. I suspect they will be more than happy for Angmering to get all the housing they can give it as it will mean they will not get it and their seats are safe. At least until, in time, their turn rolls round.
Also, unless the rules have changed, only the applicant can appeal against a planning decision, not those affected; so it is very much loaded in favour of the applicant. Arun are unlikely to deny an application if they have the slightest suspicion that it would get overturned on appeal as it would cost them, sorry - us, money to defend an appeal.
Probably there are 2 chances of preventing this - fat, and no. Alternatives are to find some rare lesser-spotted, 3-toed, microbial newt in the area, or get Swampy and his gang in. Or do a bit of lying down in front of the bulldozers.
Or get our esteemed MP to speak to his mate Dave and transfer at least one of his plans into reality to force District to comply with Parish wishes. As above - 2 chances. |
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2012 : 21:18:42
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So where exactly is Nick Herbert MP - has anyone seen or heard from him since the draft Local Plan was published?
He was very active in opposing the new settlement proposals for Ford Airfield (one mile from his home) and you can be sure that he was fully aware of what the alternative locations to Ford were.
I can't help wondering if he was deliberately trying to "steer" development away from Ford and towards villages like Angmering instead.
He usually pops up in a greenfield location for a photo opportunity -but I haven't seen him anywhere near Angmering yet - has anyone got a cardboard cut-out? |
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Robinf
Senior Member
105 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 09:43:50
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Are there any hustings held where the candidates get to address potential voters?
quote:
Originally posted by Charlie1
Bert said "and the PC is made up of elected councillors". Is it? The last two new Councillors seemed to get the job just because the other APC Councillors voted to accept their application to join. There are, apparently, two new vacancies. How will these new Councillors get onto the Parish Council? Have the people of Angmering really voted our APC Councillors onto it? If they do in the same way, that will be a total of 4 new members agreed by APC, not the people.
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DEGOO
Average Member
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 12:19:27
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| I'm sure Paul was joking about the 3 toed newt, however a protected species of newt was found at Manor Nurserys recently and has been reported to the appropriate authorities - see the 'Save Angmering Village from more houses' Facebook page - perhaps we SHOULD contact Swampy! |
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 17:42:23
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| As Manor Nurseries is apparently no longer within the development site, newt would have to be moved. |
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 22:20:48
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The laws of natural justice have underpinned the English legal system since Roman times. They protect against arbitrary exercise of power by ensuring fair play.
The principles of natural justice form two basic legal safeguards that govern all decisions by judges or government officials when they take quasi-judicial or judicial decisions. One is nemo judex in parte sua (no person may judge their own case) and the other is audi alteram partem (the right to be heard).
(1) Audi alteram partem (Latin for, hear the other side): no accused, or a person directly affected by a decision, shall be condemned unless given full chance to prepare and submit his or her case and rebuttal to the opposing party's arguments.
(2) Nemo judex in causa sua (Latin for, no man a judge in his own case): no decision is valid if it was influenced by any financial consideration or other interest or bias of the decision maker.
These principles apply to decisions of all governmental agencies and tribunals, and judgments of all courts, which may be declared to be of having no effect (ultra vires) if found in contravention of natural justice.
A council cannot campaign against something (the “council-led community campaign” against the principle of an Eco Town) and at the same time consider it with an open mind (the Eco Town Select Committee) – Nemo judex in causa sua. Bias of the decision maker!
Arun now seeks to use the findings of the Eco Town Select Committee as its justification against a new settlement on brownfield land and instead to justify development of large swathes of greenfield land across the district.
I hope that the residents most affected by this – in Angmering, Eastergate, Aldingbourne and Barnham, and their democratically elected representatives, will include this point in their response to the current public consultation – in order to receive an independent opinion from the Planning Inspectorate when it is considered in a quasi judicial context.
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 09:54:47
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| Good point, CB. I have now drawn this to the attention of Angmering Parish Council who are currently preparing their response to ADC. |
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 19:55:51
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Thanks Neil
The more different directions this point comes from the harder it is for it to be "swept under the carpet"! |
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Mr Growser
Average Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 20:02:36
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Agree with CB.
"Res ipsa loquitor" |
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Charlie1
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 11:51:51
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I've had an email from SAV which states that ADC appear to have marked the wrong area on their Draft Local Plan map for the "Employment Site". It seems this should be NORTH of Water Lane, not SOUTH of it. How can we comment on an incorrect site? Surely this makes a mockery of the Consultation on this issue? What is the legal position on this? Are ADC going to do another Consultation for Angmering prior to the 10th September deadline for comments?
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Bluebell
Average Member
United Kingdom
99 Posts |
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Patrick
New Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 16:49:23
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As a campaigner against the Courtwick development last year, which consisted of 600 houses being built on arable land to the North of Littlehampton, I would like to add some thoughts.
In my view any development of housing needs the availability of jobs either locally or within a reasonable commuting distance, unless its for retired people. Arun D.C say in their local plan that they will provide business opportunities, but they can only provide the planning consent for business premises, they cannot make them move here.
I would suggest that the geography of this area does not lend itself to business development. Most businesses need easy access to their customers and the ability to ship products to customers readily, this is being hindered in Arun by the poor transport infrastructure that we are saddled with. Areas where business development seem to be healthy are places such as Gatwick and the M4 corridor where the infrastructure is very good.
With the Downs in the way to the north and the sea to the South most transport links have to be squeezed within a narrow East/West corridor. Consequently in my view businesses will not be attracted to the area, and in the meantime people will have to continue to travel to where the work is e.g . Brighton, Crawley, Gatwick.
With the existence of the South Downs National Park it is unlikely that road improvements will take place to the North. To the East and West as everyone knows there are great bottlenecks on the roads which may take years to sort out. The railway also has its own bottleneck of only two tracks in places and an improvement of this would need a massive investment.
This East/West corridor will continue to give a squeezing effect if development of housing continues with an increase in population. There will be more traffic and even less land to make improvements to the transport infrastructure.
Consequently without the incentive for businesses to settle here, it seems ludicrous to allow these large housing estates being built if the jobs are not going to be available.
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2012 : 17:21:23
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| APC Planning Meeting tonight will not be dealing with Barratts Application. However, understand special meeting scheduled for this purpose on September 15th (after Community Fete) 7pm to 9pm, Community Centre. |
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Crazypaving
Average Member
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 07:35:23
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| From the look of the plan those living on or near Roundstone Lane incl Bramley Green will not be able to get in or out of their residences for about five long years as the only access from the proposed development is right by the pinch point! Presumably they plan to remove the traffic calming measure there and then you can take your life in your hands and hope not to meet a construction lorry or the bus coming the other way. Am sure if planning permission is granted, Barrats will then go ahead with the plan for the remaining 150 houses. And... What's the point of affordable housing there? No improved infrastructure, no job prospects, no additional services. Doctors surgeries are full. Can't afford or find a NHS dentist! What's good about it. Meanwhile the A280 is a ghost highway! |
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Chuckle Brother
Average Member
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
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Robinf
Senior Member
105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 17:37:26
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| An excellent piece of work; thoughtful, incisive, interesting, informative alarming, and food for thought for Angmering residents. |
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mark1234
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 20:21:43
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| The rugby club have a meeting for members this Wednesday evening (5 Sept) to discuss and vote on proposals from the developers that may include a move from the current site. |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
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Robinf
Senior Member
105 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 06:26:00
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Anynobody know what the outcome of the meeting was last night at the Rugby Club?
quote:
Originally posted by mark1234
The rugby club have a meeting for members this Wednesday evening (5 Sept) to discuss and vote on proposals from the developers that may include a move from the current site.
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Building Development in Angmering (Part 1)
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